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Internationalization again and a question on donations

I wanted to ask the community a kind of broad question about our direction when it comes to internationalization and languages offered here. Right now, we've prioritized Chinese, Czech, German, English, French, Polish, Russian, and Spanish as languages for the interface at Wikilivres:Localization. I'm trying to finish that up soon, so that the site is really multilingual (Spanish is almost done). Do we want to include other languages as well? I'm not good at Portuguese but probably good enough to do this interface translation. Do we have any roadmap for inclusion of other languages? We have some material in several other languages (Albanian, Dutch, Esperanto, Georgian, Hebrew, Neapolitan, and Turkish); do we want to internationalize to those as well? I see that we also have a stray reference to Interlingua, too... (Edit: it only exists for this redlink: Antoine_de_Saint-Exupéry#Interlingua_translations.)

As a secondary concern, right now Wikilivres:Site_support is fairly useless as the PayPal donation link is marked out by HTML comments. Evidently, that link is no longer valid. Is there an account that I can link to for donations? Is there a place where I can give $20 to support the site? If not, there's no point in even having it in the sidebar. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 09:16, 10 June 2015 (PDT)

Hi. I'm really not sure if we should internationalize so much. Languages like Albanianor Georgian are here because the articles were copyvio on Oldwikisource, I'm not quite happy I posted them here as there is nobody to take care. And, I would expect, that visitors could know such words like work, author, licence etc. in English. Secondly: I don't see either the necessity of localisation of such words like Elegies, Fables, Ballads, Epitaphs, Limericks, Laments, Odes... etc., as it is quite subjective to categorize it like this, normally poetry, poems etc. is enough. And, the tranlations of words like limerics can be quite different in some languages as well. That's why I am rather pessimistic on this point. Cheers, -jkb- 12:58, 10 June 2015 (PDT)
Names I agree that the genres of poem and song seem unnecessary. If others feel they should be deleted, that can easily be done. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 13:06, 10 June 2015 (PDT)
Ey, I do not vote for the deletion, it's just my private opinion. Let us see what other ones say :-) -jkb- 13:52, 10 June 2015 (PDT)
I'm opposite to deletion; I use them for Polish section. And not only for Polish, e.g. for translations. Electron   07:24, 11 June 2015 (PDT)
Deletion Sure: let's just table deletion. What about the other things I wrote? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 07:26, 11 June 2015 (PDT)
About other languages: why not? If you have time and the will - maybe it would be helpful for somebody. I speak Polish, English, Russian (and a little Belarusian) - so I translate these first 2 sections from time to time (if I have free time).
The donation - I have no my own opinion, I am not the owner of this site. I think that Eclecticology should decide. Electron   07:40, 11 June 2015 (PDT)

These are important questions, and some recent health difficulties highlight that I should pay greater attention to the funding.

  1. My costs in the current year for the operation of the site have been C$516.47 for hosting, payable in March, and C$11.50 for the domain name. I am also paying the domain fees for the .org and .net names, but I am only sitting on them. On the occasion of the last renewal I increased RAM by 1Gb; this added C$50.40 to the cause. Thus far, I see no need to increase the site's capacity at the next renewal. It would be prudent for me to open a Paypal account in the name of Wikilivres, and I will look into that possibility. I am not soliciting donations at this time, but will appreciate any that are made. If by some chance those donations exceed annual costs I would need to explore possible improvements. Please advise me if those donations should be publicly recognized. Unless the annual budget exceeds C$1,000 (perhaps more) I don't think it would be worthwhile to pursue the extra paperwork that comes with incorporation, formal non-profitability or tax deductibility.
  2. I don't think that some of the categories for sub-categories of literature are particularly useful, but then I might react more favorably to "obituaries", "biographies" or "reviews". I don't support a scorched earth approach to removing these categories, but I prefer that a common sense approach to their usefulness be kept in mind.
  3. On language internationalization it is important that we be aware of our capacity to curate these language. The unfortunate thing about the Georgian language pages is that there is no-one here to care for them. Copyright violation at Wikisource alone should not be a default reason for adding pages here. Similarly we have a number of image pages that were transferred from Commons for the same reason. Curating image files is a particular problem for those of us who arrived here from a Wikisource type project.
  4. I see that the links for non-commercial pages have been removed. In principle, I agree with this. Still I think it's premature. For now moving these to a "Deprecated links" heading would have been better. That would make it easier to trace pages that use the template. They could still be deleted once the referenced material is gone. Eclecticology 14:38, 19 June 2015 (PDT)
Donations I actually wanted to give you a little money (I'm from the United States). If you want to undelete something from Wikilivres:Internationalization, then I certainly won't object. I agree that curating material in relatively obscure languages is a problem but I'm not sure how to resolve it. Have you or Yann ever made an effort to reach out to the Georgian-reading WMF community? As an aside, I have tried to use AutoWikiBrowser here and it could not connect. Do you know anything about this? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 14:50, 19 June 2015 (PDT)

Works on Wikisource/Commons

Reproduction Should we host works here that are on Wikisource as well? Or files that are available on Commons? Wikilivres:About reads, "You are welcome to publish texts here if they cannot be accepted in Wikisource. Most texts that can be accepted in Wikisource should be published there." (with two exceptions to this general rule). Does that mean that we shouldn't have duplication between the two projects? Is it a problem to have texts at both? The issue that I have in mind is authors such as George Orwell or E. E. Cummings who have some works in the Canadian public domain but not in the American, so readers trying to find their works will have to go between both sites. Thoughts? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 20:11, 21 June 2015 (PDT)

Better not have duplication unless there is an unusual need.--Jusjih 18:14, 17 July 2015 (PDT)

Something is wrong with this wiki

From some time something is wrong with this wiki: pages are loaded long time, internationalisation and some addictional funtions dont't work... Seem like the wiki works only in it standard version. Electron   04:19, 12 September 2015 (PDT)

Examples Do you have links or diffs or screenshots? I haven't noticed this problem but I'm willing to believe it's true. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 07:14, 12 September 2015 (PDT)
Example: Localization doesn't work - e.g. these templates should in Polish version because I use Polish interface.
For example:
  • I can't see the tranlations into Polish of words, phrases, and templates -> see the picture I uploaded.
  • I see only default functions and orders, but they were changded by putting new descriptions into MediaWiki space, e.g. if I want to delete a page I don't see what was put there -> MediaWiki:Filedelete-reason-dropdown, but I see only 2 default reasons:"Copyrigt violation" and "Duplication files". When I uploaded the screen I coundn't see additional licenses that was added by edited MediaWiki space - I saw only one default license: "none". And so on, and so on...
So, I see this wiki in its default state. It seems, that it doesn't use new feature that were added in MediaWiki space. Electron   16:36, 12 September 2015 (PDT)
OK, now it works fine. Electron   13:49, 14 October 2015 (PDT)

Recent outage

Input requested I went to edit here a few times over the past three or four days and the site was down. What can I do to alert the correct person and how can I help make sure that it's active 99.99% of the time? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 20:37, 13 October 2015 (PDT)

The site was down for me too. --Zephyrus 03:43, 14 October 2015 (PDT)
This site was very slow for me for most of September and I couldn't access it at all for the previous ten days. I was planning to write articles for Literature Wikia about "A Warning to the Curious" and "A View From a Hill" last week and to link to their texts here. I had to put those plans on hold. Simon Peter Hughes 05:34, 14 October 2015 (PDT)

"Missing texvc executable"

This error is appear during the editing formulas. Please install TeX or fix it. --Maxim Pe 08:12, 28 October 2015 (PDT)

InstantCommons broken?

Please investigate It appears that this MediaWiki extension may be broken. I know that it was not working temporarily on Wikitravel but that was fixed. Pages using files from Commons are displaying redlinks--e.g. User:Simon Peter Hughes. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 15:36, 10 November 2015 (PST)

It was the same on Wikitravel, eh? For what it's worth, I know that Wikimedia Commons images weren't displaying on RationalWiki for several days last week. The problem seems to be fixed there now. I can only echo Koavf's words. Please investigate. I won't be inclined to do any more editing here until the pictures are back. Simon Peter Hughes 04:23, 11 November 2015 (PST)
MediaWiki is the culprit We need to update it: the current version is outdated. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 06:35, 11 November 2015 (PST)
Quick fix At least for the main page: I uploaded a local copy of File:Oberon, Titania and Puck with Fairies Dancing. William Blake. c.1786.jpg. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 14:07, 28 November 2015 (PST)

It is still not fixed. Is it likely to be sorted out in the near future?--Poetlister 15:20, 13 February 2016 (PST)

The problem can be fixed only by Eclecticology but he haven't logged from 1 June 2015. It is warring... Electron   14:54, 14 February 2016 (PST)

Happy New Year!

See here Here's to a good year for all spreading free culture and knowledge. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 21:19, 31 December 2015 (PST)

Happy new year - Bonne année - Šťastný nový rok - 新年快樂 - 新年快乐 - Szczęśliwego Nowego Roku - Frohes neues Jahr - Feliz año nuevo - С новым годом - Feliĉan novan jaron - Mutlu Yıllar - Gëzuar Vitin e Ri - გილოცავ ახალ წელს - שנה טובה - and other languages not here yet  :-) --Zephyrus 12:31, 1 January 2016 (PST)
Happy New Year for everybody on the Earth :-) Electron   17:40, 1 January 2016 (PST)
... and the same - signed by -jkb- 16:00, 20 January 2016 (PST)

Search engines

Is it normal for pages on this wiki not to be found by search engines? Checking Special:PopularPages in Google:

No DMCA takedowns are noted. Nemo bis 10:54, 18 February 2016 (PST)

Requested account

See here Can someone help? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 20:01, 27 March 2016 (PDT)

OK. Could you say: What would you want to do on Wikilivres? What kind of literature do you want to publish there? The answer you can post here -> [3]. Regards Electron (talk) 07:28, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
I can create an account. Just send me your email from Wikipedia / Wikimedia. Regards, Yann 07:31, 9 June 2016 (PDT)

Eclecticology not responding

Hi, I see that Eclecticology has not answered since October 2015. There are a lot of issues to be fixed. I also wrote to him, but no answer either. I don't have access to the server, so we are blocked. Any idea? Yann 07:29, 9 June 2016 (PDT)

Real life Does anyone know him off-wiki? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 00:41, 10 June 2016 (PDT)
Yep, but no telephone etc.; he is living far away from Berlin, as you know. -jkb- 16:12, 12 June 2016 (PDT)
P.S. As he has been at Hackathon in Berlin for some 4 or 5 years (where I met him), somebody (meta, wikimedia...) should have his address and telephone. I guess. -jkb- 16:15, 12 June 2016 (PDT)
Identity Does he make his public? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 17:19, 12 June 2016 (PDT)
It seems, that his last edits are of 23 May 2016 on en.wp. K67y 16:38, 21 June 2016 (PDT)

Pre-1923 works

Why do we have so many works published before 1923 here? If Wikisource may keep them, them we should delete them here.--Jusjih 11:56, 18 June 2016 (PDT)

Publication The only thing I can think of is that some works were originally published in their original language in (e.g.) 1922 and are thus in the public domain but some translations of them may be licensed in some way that wouldn't be acceptable for WMF projects. Not likely, but not impossible. The only other reason is works of particular interest to Canadian culture and history, which this site also hosts. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 14:14, 18 June 2016 (PDT)
Looked as a sample at Two Women. Published in fact in 1922 both in London [4] and the US [5], PD both in the US and the UK, therefore transferable to wikisource. K67y 16:22, 21 June 2016 (PDT)

Small success story

See here I have emulated Wikilivres:Localization on Wikispecies. I attributed the text in the edit summary but it is so brief that it seems like it would not be copyright anyway. Thanks to everyone for their hard work here. I don't know who came up with this MediaWiki hack but it's so useful. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 23:34, 1 July 2016 (PDT)

@ all,

especially also @ the "last rulling bureaucrat" Yann: we should soon decide what we shall doas Eclecticology is still not answering (and I woudl like to hope there is nothing happened with him). If we cannot manage some urgent updates we cann soon not work here, and soon the users will loose all their motivation. Do we want to recall thsi project or not? What are the options? I would like toknow it. Cheers, -jkb- 16:08, 3 July 2016 (PDT)

Agreed I have tried to reach Eclecticology and of course I hope that he is okay personally and support him if he chooses to not be involved in the Wikisphere personally. But that does leave this project in a pickle. I also emailed but have not gotten a response from him either. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 16:48, 3 July 2016 (PDT)
I still have no answer from Eclecticology. I emailed Wikimedia Canada, but without any positive result so far. I am afraid we will have to move/duplicate the project somewhere else. Regards, Yann 05:50, 4 July 2016 (PDT)
Registration For what it's worth, the domain is registered through 2018-02-28. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 07:41, 4 July 2016 (PDT)
A registration is nice - but we need somebody who has full access (i.e. knowledge about it and all passwords) to the data base as there are some very urgent changes outstanding. And, there is another problem: after we had some spam bots here we closed the domain, and every user who osuld like an account here is to contacdt us vie the above email address. I have got the password for it from Eclecticology, but I do not succeed to get in. Is there anybody who can check mail that are coming in? -jkb- 08:29, 4 July 2016 (PDT)
Admins For what it is worth, I have used the bureaucrat abilities to de-sysop users who have not edited in years--some of them almost a decade. If anyone finds these at all controversial, I will happily undo it. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 10:46, 4 July 2016 (PDT)
ad WikiSysop: normally such accounts are mady by the system for the access into the data base. AFAIK. See e.g. here. -jkb- 11:17, 4 July 2016 (PDT)
I e-mailed him few months ago and left him the post on his page on en-wikipedia last days, all with no answer... About wikilivres e-mail - my password dosn't work sinse the site was moved to new domain - but I think it is not a big problem to create new post-box somewhere else. About moving the site - the problem is that there are not many countries with copyrightes simililar to Canada law, or better; and there is no sense moving the site to contury with copyrightes protection more than 50 years. Electron   03:51, 6 July 2016 (PDT)

E mail address

Our e mail address obviously doesn't exist or doesn't work. I have just tried to send a mail to accounts[at] and have got the message that the mail cannot be sent as the address doesn`t exist. So we have to find a solution for this problem as well. Anyway, the notice on the top must be changed. -jkb- 09:38, 4 July 2016 (PDT)

Import from and export to Wikisource

Hi, folks! I'm new to Wikilivres :) I see that Special:Log/import is inactive since 2012. But, do you use to import or transwiki texts from Wikisources including all the history log? If so, how do you do it? Or do you copy and paste them?
E.g. I intend to copy [6] from es.source to Viento del pueblo (by Miguel Hernández), but if an easy way exists for capturing the whole user contributions, that would be nice.
Also, is there a mechanism to export texts to Wikisource also with Wikilivres's history log? Thanks! -Aleator 01:56, 19 August 2016 (PDT)

Uploading See Special:Import. Have you tried this yet? You can export pages as XML and then try uploading them here. Gràcies/gracias! —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 07:35, 19 August 2016 (PDT)
See also: Unable to import pages. Electron   01:04, 20 August 2016 (PDT)
Thanks for the quick feedback :) Special:Import gives me error The action you have requested is limited to users in one of the groups: Autoconfirmed users, Administrators. I'm registered more than four days old and have made at least 10 edits, so the software should have made me autoconfirmed. On the other way, although I can export works from Wikilivres (e.g. those that fit on Wikisource, like those of Casimiro Prieto Valdés), I cannot import XML's there (I think this limitation is for all WMF wikis -ref-). So, I'll try via copy and paste. Best regards! -Aleator 14:51, 20 August 2016 (PDT)
OK. As I remember on this wiki you should have more than 100 edits to be autoconfirmed. Electron   14:51, 21 August 2016 (PDT)
Oh, wait, now Special:Import works for me! :) I've made 35 edits now. In the form I can see es.source... but it fails: Import failed: Could not open import file. I suppose it is because of the different version of Mediawiki. I'll continue copying & paste. No problem :) -Aleator 11:16, 31 August 2016 (PDT)
Yep. Our version is now much elder than the common versions in Wikipedia. I had the same problem in my home wiki: it worked, and then, after I didn't install a new version, I got the same message. -jkb- 13:53, 31 August 2016 (PDT)

New accounts

Dummy account? Since we cannot create new accounts, should we try to make a pre-existing account into a dummy, all-purpose registered user? I can amend MediaWiki:Loginprompt and MediaWiki:Sitenotice to that effect. Maybe User:WikiSysop? Thoughts? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 15:49, 20 August 2016 (PDT)

Why not, if it is possible? The problem is that we should produce the password to all, and any user who logged in with this password can change it. So it won't fix the problem, I'm afraid. Electron   15:06, 21 August 2016 (PDT)
Password locking It is possible to lock passwords for public accounts with MediaWiki but of course, none of us has access to the server. Otherwise, if it gets changed, we can reset it, can't we? (Edit: It looks like we have too old a version of MediaWiki so that Special:ChangePassword does not require you to access the email account associated with the username...) —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 15:15, 21 August 2016 (PDT)
I don't think so... But I suppose that the beauroctat can renaming the dammy account in such situation (to the name requested by new user), delete the previous account and create it with the same name, with the same password. I don't know it would work on this wiki. But you can try this way... Electron   15:28, 21 August 2016 (PDT)
Good thinking I will do that in a few days if no one objects. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 18:21, 21 August 2016 (PDT)

When do we split?

Opinions needed Since it is clear that the site is becoming outdated and experiencing technical problems and we cannot seem to get a hold of the person who is in control, when and how do we decide to port this project to another domain name? Does anyone have a roadmap in mind? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 15:23, 21 August 2016 (PDT)

As I write some time ago: About moving the site - the problem is that there are not many countries with copyrightes simililar to Canada law, or better; and there is no sense moving the site to contury with copyrightes protection more than 50 years. If there is somebody who is Canadian citizen and would have a willingness to lead a new wiki, why not? This is not a problem copy it to the new server. The problem is the length of copyright... Electron   15:34, 21 August 2016 (PDT)
ack. If: so we should stay in Canada. First, you will most probably not find similar copyrigt conditions in other countries. Moreover, secondly, when we move to another country, we would have to change a very huge lot of templates (mentionig Canada etc.), even if the copyright conditions would be death + 50; if the conditions would be different, so pls not with me - it woud be bigger work and deal than our fight with the spam bots some years ago. -jkb- 09:20, 22 August 2016 (PDT)
Hosting I agree that Canada is our best option (barring trying to host in some place that has no copyright law which seems like a recipe for disaster). The problem is that the software on the site is outdated and breaking--e.g. InstantCommons, uploads, etc. We also can't make new accounts. At some point, we need to do something drastic. I've reached out to the owner as many ways as I know how to no avail. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 19:45, 22 August 2016 (PDT)
I don't mean that we should stay where we are, no, that hosting doesn't work; but we should stay somewhere in Canada because of the advantages we have here. -jkb- 16:01, 29 August 2016 (PDT)
On the question above: yes, his identity is public at WMCA. According to his facebook page, he had a family event in April, and that is his last post there. Have made a request at WMCA. Google shows a small Vancouver company with phone number and address. K67y 06:40, 29 August 2016 (PDT)
Actually I have already called him a couple of weeks ago and no response. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 07:22, 29 August 2016 (PDT)
nice, thanks for your request at wmca! -jkb- 14:31, 29 August 2016 (PDT)
I got a contact with someone from Ray's family. I think we only need access to the domain. What do you think? Regards, Yann 12:59, 14 September 2016 (PDT)
Domain Thanks, Yann--I didn't want to bother them now or anytime soon when they have much bigger things to handle now. Once someone from his family is able to transfer the domain, do you want to take control of it again? Do you want me to do it? Can Wikimedia Canada corporately? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 15:07, 14 September 2016 (PDT)
I could pay for the domain right now, but I can't ensure anything in the long term. Obviously it would be much better if Wikimedia Canada is involved. I used to do all the technical stuff myself, but I can't do it anymore. Mediawiki is much more complex than it used to be. Regards, Yann 23:47, 14 September 2016 (PDT)
Thanks Please let me know what his loved ones say as they communicate with you and how I can help. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 13:28, 15 September 2016 (PDT)
Ths, Yann. If somebody could transfer the project to us / somebody of us /, so it it seems to be the best solution. For the future: we should have at least two trusted persons as system administrators (and ack Yann: the software changes heavilly in last years and it is not easy to manage it nowadays...) -jkb- 00:21, 16 September 2016 (PDT)

Updates? Yann, have you heard from Ray's loved ones? I can imagine that six weeks is too short a time so please don't let me put any pressure on you to put pressure on them. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 19:20, 26 October 2016 (PDT)

User:Eclecticology is deceased

See here Thanks to Ray for all his hard work here and elsewhere. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 06:52, 14 September 2016 (PDT)

Sad news. Yann 11:52, 14 September 2016 (PDT)
Sadness. Thanks for these years, EC.
--Zephyrus 14:57, 14 September 2016 (PDT)
Very sad. Ray, whom I knew personally, was a very nice and friendly guy. I feel with his family. -jkb- 23:53, 15 September 2016 (PDT)
Very sad news. I am deeply sorry to hear about his death. Electron  01:28, 16 September 2016 (PDT)
Memorial Please see this post on en.wp for a memorial to Ray in the next Signpost. Can anyone help? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 20:01, 21 September 2016 (PDT)
I can't add anything more. Yann 13:38, 22 September 2016 (PDT)
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