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Newly-PD as of 2014-01-01

hello;

i've started a page (& perhaps a new "tradition"?), for listing newly-liberated authors & works.

it's just a very rough & simple list-text right now, but i welcome improvements... :)

Wikilivres:1963 deaths, therefore now in the Public Domain

Lx 121 08:36, 3 January 2014 (AKST)

We now need a list of people who died in 1964.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:1964_deathsJustin (koavf)TCM☯ 13:16, 17 January 2015 (PST)
We already have Wikilivres:1964 deaths, therefore now in the Public Domain, though both of these would be neater titles without drawing the conclusion. Eclecticology 14:30, 17 January 2015 (PST)

Index Pages

Does Wikilivres have any way to add index pages for transcribing, like Wikisource does?--Interretano

Site down and problems with accounts e-mail address

Heads up As I believe Eclectiology and Yann both know, the email address accounts[littleanarchy]wikilivres.ca has not been working. (I only got my account made by contacting Yann through IRC). Wikilivres was down earlier today (roughly 14 hours ago). Also, wikilivres.info does not redirect users to wikilivres.ca. I figured this is all worth mentioning in one place. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 21:47, 26 June 2014 (PDT)

Hi, and be welcome! Well, it happens once a week or so, that the site is down. Sometime it takes some hour, sometimes longer (two days?). I don't know why. And no: the old site address never did redirect to the new one as far as I know. Regards -jkb- 03:22, 27 June 2014 (PDT)

Naming inconsistency

Category:Languages Some of these entries are local names (e.g. Category:Deutsch, rather than Category:German) and others are Anglicized (e.g. Category:Albanian, rather than Category:Shqiptare). As I see it, we have three options:

Thoughts? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 08:57, 29 June 2014 (PDT)

I'm inclined to stick with the English names while retaining redirects from the other language(s). The idea has more to do with English as a reference language. Having decided that Category:French will be the reference point it should be possible that a person who has opted for localization would have that category appear in that language ... at least to the extent that the other language names have been defined.
We have had efforts at localization, though I think that their usage has been very poorly explained. Many innovative ideas have passed through this site, but if the innovator leaves we are left with a series of obscure templates that few (if any) contributors understand. Keeping things simple must always be a consideration. Eclecticology 17:17, 2 July 2014 (PDT)
Subdomains What about language subdomains like "en.wikilivres.ca" as used on Wikimedia projects? Standard wikilivres.ca could be for meta discussion. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 08:46, 3 July 2014 (PDT)
I strongly disagreed with that when Wikisource broke up into subdomains. I think it discourages translations and other multilingual activity. People tend to hunker down into their separate communities, and develop incompatible template systems. We don't have a big group of regulars here, so I would also be concerned about our having the manpower to curate all these separate subdomains. We already have a number of pages in Georgian and Albanian here because they failed to meet the Wikisource copyright criteria. Such pages were put there by someone who was obviously interested in that material; the transfer here was a matter of getting rid of it from Wikisource. It wasn't accompanied by someone with an interest in those languages. I would like to encourage more translations and annotations. Eclecticology 10:19, 3 July 2014 (PDT)
Splitting As you might be able to see from my contributions, I'm working on standardizing this. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 22:17, 3 July 2014 (PDT)
I have always found the Mediawiki category system weak in that it does not allow for searching across multiple categories. Thus for "Poems in English" it would seem so much simpler if we could search for material that is in both Category:English and Category:Poems instead of the compound Category:Poems in English. An added benefit would be to discourage obscure compounds. Eclecticology 10:00, 4 July 2014 (PDT)

Naming As a tangentially related issue, it seems like there is a hodge-podge mix of "x by language" and "x by country/region". Sometimes, geographic or linguistic groupings are useful but blurring them together isn't. These should be untangled. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 10:41, 4 July 2014 (PDT)

I agree. Nevertheless, it's important that other users have an opportunity to react when standardizations are proposed. Much of the system was built over the years, often without much consultation, notice or broad perspective. Eclecticology 12:41, 4 July 2014 (PDT)

WikiNode

See Wikilivres:WikiNode I have created a WikiNode to foster interlinking between this community and others. I hope it's useful. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 22:17, 3 July 2014 (PDT)

Looks like a good idea. Wikimedia projects are too often the elephants in the wading pool. Eclecticology 09:18, 4 July 2014 (PDT)

upload file size limit

hi;

the upload file size limit for u.r.l.'s is 100 mb, but for files from my computer it is only 2 mb? (or why was it set so low?)

could you change that please? i'm pretty sure it used to be larger (i.e.: when i uploaded the4 chronicles of narnia)

Lx 121 19:27, 23 August 2014 (PDT)

  • actually, i just tried uploading it directly from the url, & that's not working either? it's another pdf book of c.s. lewis, file size is only ~7 mb.
The World's Last Night, and Other Essays (1960) -- https://archive.org/download/worldslastnighta012859mbp/worldslastnighta012859mbp.pdf
Lx 121 19:36, 23 August 2014 (PDT)

Recent outage

For those of you who have been wondering why this site was off line for more than a week, a little explanation order. The payment for hosting or for the domain was never in question. The "unpaid" account was for nameservers, the service that allows the site to be found on the internet. Since our last transfer of hosts this was be done by DNSever, a South Korean company. The choice of that company was a technical one, beyond my technical understanding. Initially DNSever provided a free service. More recently they decided to commercialize their service. The amount of money in question was trivial, less than $1.00 per month. What was unacceptable was terms of service that included compliance with United States copyright laws and having those terms subject to Korean law. All this necessitated a change of nameserver, and this is now being handled by Interglider. Eclecticology 10:57, 19 December 2014 (PST)

Thanks I know it's been a real headache. I appreciate you working to resolve this. I've seen Wikilivres down several times in 2014. Do you think there will be downtimes in the coming year as well? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 00:52, 20 December 2014 (PST)
Rights, see my mail, it was several times. Let us hope the best now :-) -jkb- 02:41, 20 December 2014 (PST)

New outage for selected users? I'm just now discussing on cs.wikisource with some users who would like to get here, but they still get (5 minutes ago) the message "Server not found. Firefox can't find the server at www.wikilivres.ca". ??? -jkb- 03:17, 20 December 2014 (PST)

I get the connection to the server even if I am logged out - but not the user from cssource. -jkb- 04:05, 20 December 2014 (PST)

Now two user are reporting about tis problem. -jkb- 06:54, 20 December 2014 (PST)

Thanks a lot for your efforts!--C.R. 13:13, 22 December 2014 (PST)

Yes, but since my last edit here Dec 20th evening neither I could get in here, time out - time out - time out ... -jkb- 15:00, 22 December 2014 (PST)

I have the same problem... The only way to get to wikilivres.ca is using proxy, e.g. http://downuptime.net/proxy/ as I am using now. Electron   17:39, 23 December 2014 (PST)
Just to report an outage, the server was unavailable during the last 5 days (for me). I'll try proxy next time ^^. --C.R. 13:20, 11 February 2015 (PST)
I had the same problem; total outage - the proxy coulnd't help this time. Electron   17:25, 11 February 2015 (PST)
Much of this recent outage was my fault. My laptop went for repairs because of a broken charging connector. Information about the password was in its memory, and it took a while to find it so that I could reboot the server. Eclecticology 01:35, 13 February 2015 (PST)
Outages I don't want this to come across as needlessly provocative but can we expect more downtime on the site or do you think it will be live 99.9% of the time from now on? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 11:53, 13 February 2015 (PST)

Class of 2015

See here We can undelete The Little Prince soon... —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 22:35, 23 December 2014 (PST)

Actually It seems like Le Petit Prince is already here but The Little Prince expires in four more years for some reason. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 22:36, 23 December 2014 (PST)
See Talk:Le Petit Prince. Katherine Woods, the English translator died in 1968, so her version won't be in the public domain until 2019. Eclecticology
French edition How is the original hosted here then? Isn't it not supposed to be available for another week? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 18:45, 24 December 2014 (PST)
Saint-Exupéry died in 1944. His work went into the public domain in Canada in 1995 after 50 years. This, combined with the rule of the shorter term, is the primary benefit of using Canadian law. For most of the European Union his work goes into the public domain next week. Because he "died for France" there is a further extension in French law to account for the war years. Translations give rise to separate copyrights based on the life of the translator. Eclecticology 01:15, 26 December 2014 (PST)

The New Year's list is up: Wikilivres:1964 deaths, therefore now in the Public Domain, have at it! ^__^ Lx 121 03:11, 1 January 2015 (PST)

Ugly hacks

Template:AA As you can see, I made some creative hacks to the template because fields like eo_wplink were not working (in this case, on Cole Porter it generated "http://www.wikilivres.ca/w/index.php?title=Eo.wp:Cole_Porter&action=edit&redlink=1"). This really needs to be fixed on a more fundamental level than I can do but at the very least you can link from any WMF project to any other one with these little redirects. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 00:20, 2 January 2015 (PST)

To be honest, I have never liked the AA template, but since it was developed before I was seriously involved in this project I have not touched it for fear of making things worse. I can't complain about what you have done. Doing more would take a lot of discussion directed at understanding what we are trying to do with this or some other template, then applying more advanced knowledge about how these templates work. Eclecticology 13:58, 2 January 2015 (PST)
Template What don't you like about it? It can all be amended, right? I'd be happy to help fix it how you think it should be. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 14:13, 2 January 2015 (PST)
The important thing for me about author pages is the link to their works. The multilingual material to identify them is too top heavy, and as the number of languages increases would get longer. Something which gives the material in one's own language only would be more effective. I would also like to see the author namespace used. Eclecticology 00:13, 3 January 2015 (PST)
All this is due to the history of Wikilivres. It started in French only, and tried to imitate Wikisource as much as possible. Then it became multilingual while still keeping all in one domain only. Now Wikisource has evolved, but Wikilivres didn't. Regards, Yann 13:51, 3 January 2015 (PST)
All true enough. French Wikisource was quick to abandon the idea of the Author namespace, but English Wikisource still maintains it. When templates have been imported they have come from several different Wikisources, each with its own subtle understandings that may not have been compatible. Imports from Commons have been particularly problematic, because this project is by nature still a Wikisource spinoff. Eclecticology 19:11, 3 January 2015 (PST)

Namespaces I don't think that it's preferable to keep all content in one wiki regardless of source language and I think that Wikisource's model to use language subdomains is probably best, although I realize that it was actually a big deal to split them when the site was broken up about a decade ago. That having been said, if you want an "Author" namespace (which I'm assuming would be in English), then why don't you make one? If I'm correct, you control the site now, right? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 01:46, 4 January 2015 (PST)

I strongly supported keeping Wikisource in a single domain when that was an active dispute, and I still believe that it was the right position to take. I still believe in the underlying principle that it can make the literature of other languages more available, if only in translation. Your point about the namespace is well taken. Perhaps I do need to be bolder in these technical matters of applying Mediawiki. Eclecticology 23:01, 6 January 2015 (PST)
Author: Do you intend to keep using English as a lingua franca on the site (e.g. "Author" rather than "Auteur" and "Category", not "Categoría")? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 01:20, 7 January 2015 (PST)
Why not. We also use words like user, special: recent changes, image and others. If ne´cessary you can translate / localize it, but if somebody is taking part in a multilingual project, so he should have the minimal knowledges for instance in English. If not, so we could not discus here each to other neither. -jkb- 04:26, 7 January 2015 (PST)
Keeping English as a lingua franca is the only practical solution. Nevertheless, as I understand it Mediawiki does allow for localized namespace names. It's still important to use native languages as much as possible, even if that can be technically challenging. Eclecticology 10:20, 7 January 2015 (PST)
Localized namespace names is only possible on different subdomains. That's one of the main reason a namespace for authors was not used initially. I thought of using A: as a separate namespace, which is the simplest possible common name for authors. Regards, Yann 06:05, 8 January 2015 (PST)
Well, if I assume that there is just about a dozen of active users here, so there would be about a dozen People in the world who would understand what A: is :-) - all other ones, who want to read something here, would be surprized I guess -jkb- 15:20, 8 January 2015 (PST)
To say the truth I don't see a need for creating the Author namespace. In my opinion it would be only art for art's sake... It would improved nothing. Electron   16:57, 8 January 2015 (PST)

Guidance on lyrics and sheet music

Formatting I've poked around a little and it looks like pages which are lyrics and sheet music to popular songs (e.g. Autumn (Twitchell—Ives)) include the use of Template:Poem as a header and then have sheet music scans reproduced below the lyrics. Is this standardized? Are there any other best practices for popular music pages here? Thanks. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 00:56, 2 January 2015 (PST)

See Night and Day I gave it a shot but I don't have sheet music yet. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 14:17, 2 January 2015 (PST)
[Passing note: I really shouldn't try to edit anything when Benny Goodman's Sing, Sing, Sing is on the stereo]. I don't know that there has ever been any discussion about the problem you raise. People have just done what they can. Ideally I would like to see the music in an editable format like Lilypond, but that takes someone who is willing to do that work. Until then the scans will have to do. Eclecticology 15:04, 2 January 2015 (PST)
The page Wikilivres:Lilypond gives me a blank, but if I go to http://wikilivres.ca/w/index.php?title=Wikilivres:Lilypond&action=edit I still get the proper edit page. Does anyone have any idea why? Eclecticology 15:42, 2 January 2015 (PST)
Problems with Lilypond I've had issues with it as well. I don't know why pages are blank but as you point out, Wikilivres:Lilypond is a completely blank document: nothing in HTML, where as http://www.wikilivres.ca/w/index.php?title=Wikilivres:Lilypond&action=edit clearly shows content. Do you know of any other sites that use Lilypond? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 09:09, 3 January 2015 (PST)
Wikisource now uses Lilypond. Regards, Yann 13:46, 3 January 2015 (PST)
Curiously Wikilivres:Lilypond/Example6 seems to work correctly, but the similarly named examples 4 and 5 do not. Eclecticology 16:38, 3 January 2015 (PST)

Lilybook All of the non-functional examples use a tag named "lilybook" which evidently breaks the page. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 01:43, 4 January 2015 (PST)

Feel free to experiment with these Lilypond pages. Eclecticology 01:23, 6 January 2015 (PST)
Experimentation How did these pages even get made in the first place? They have edit histories and must have displayed previously. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 09:14, 6 January 2015 (PST)
Yann did a lot of work on this in November 2007. This edit: http://www.wikilivres.ca/w/index.php?title=Wikilivres:Lilypond&action=edit&oldid=17647 is the earliest that no longer works, but it must have worked then or he would not have made so many additional edits. Eclecticology 10:38, 6 January 2015 (PST)
Yes, it worked at that time. The issue is probably that the version of Lilypond is different (older?), or configured differently, that the one used previously. Regards, Yann 05:59, 8 January 2015 (PST)

Linking with WMF projects

Getting started One of my goals in the Wikisphere is to link between this project and WMF projects. To that end, I've made this template with this category and have started putting it into articles on en.wp. I figured I'd let you know. There might be a spike in traffic: anyone who has access to those statistics, please let me know. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 11:46, 17 January 2015 (PST)

This is absolutely a great idea, from the Wikilivres perspective. There may still be some people from the WMF projects who may feel that this is an infringement by linkage, but that's not my worry. I'm also with you on the general principle, but it does involve a tremendous amount of work. I try as much as possible to link from here to Wikipedia, but I limit coming back in the other direction because at some point I must impose limits on myself based on how much is doable. One of my arguments against the division of Wikisource into language domains was that participants in each such domain would tend to isolate themselves in their own domains. To me the vision of Wikisource/Wikilivres includes translations and annotations. While I can't criticize too harshly those who believe in the meticulous reproduction of old texts, going as far as retaining the long ſ from 18th century publications, there are other directions where there would be a better cost/benefit ratio. Improved linkages are one of the more obvious inclusions in this. Eclecticology 14:12, 17 January 2015 (PST)
Linking I don't understand exactly what you're saying here: "There may still be some people from the WMF projects who may feel that this is an infringement by linkage"--has this community ever had any problems with WMF communities? Where you making fun of me on that last part? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 08:59, 18 January 2015 (PST)
There is a tendency in WMF projects to take a very strict interpretation of US copyright law such that linking to a site that is in the public domain in other countries but still protected in the US could be viewed as infringement. I don't agree with that view, but it is a potential problem. On the long ſ it is an old view not tied to any specific text. I believe that content is more important than typography. (I didn't even know that you had edited such a text.) In many cases if the work was reprinted after 1800 this typographical anomaly would have been replaced. Eclecticology 11:44, 18 January 2015 (PST)

Relationship with Wikilivres.ru

Please see here Did I get this right? Have I understood the relationship between the Canadian and Russian Wikilivreses? Why/how did the split happen? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 09:01, 18 January 2015 (PST)

The reason for the split was indeed that I did not want to accept NC and ND licences. User:Dmitri Smirnov continues to edit here, and has been doing most of the work of transferring material. How you define "sister site" is unclear. The management of wikilivres.ru is completely independent of wikilivres.ca, and is presumably operating under Russian law. "Spin-off" may be a more accurate term. I must question the hyper-plural "Wikilivreses". Since "Wikilivres" is already a plural, it might well be invariable in the hyper-plural. Eclecticology 12:39, 18 January 2015 (PST)

Template:TextQuality or Template:TQ

I have introduced the parameters 20% and 70% In the immediate future these will mean exactly the same as 25% and 75% respectively. The first digit is adequate for the designation of text quality as we now know it. This will free the second for indicating the presence of linkages, translations, and other special features. These will be defined in due course; a 5 as the second digit will not be defined until its current usage has been eliminated. Eclecticology 14:05, 25 January 2015 (PST)

Numbers I don't understand why you're doing this. Can you explain more what the problem was that this is fixing? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 19:43, 25 January 2015 (PST)
I wouldn't say that it was necessarily a "problem". It just opens up the possibility of a more detailed use of the template. Eclecticology 21:19, 25 January 2015 (PST)
E.g.? Can you give me an example or proof of concept? I'm still not sure why 20% an an input allows you anything more than 25%... —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 21:47, 25 January 2015 (PST)
Both 20% and 25% will show that the text on the page is only partial. Eventually 22% may show that wiki-links have been added, 24% that the the text has been annotated, 28% that translations have been made, etc. At that point 20% alone would show that none of this has been done. 52% would show a full text with wiki-links, and so forth. Eclecticology 02:04, 26 January 2015 (PST)

Bad news for Canadian copyright law

See here Evidently, Wikilivres will soon be made redundant. Maybe we should move to a .za domain? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 00:52, 5 February 2015 (PST)

Let's not jump to conclusions yet. The entire status of the TPP is up in the air. I don't trust the current government, but there's an election coming up in October, and the new government at that time may view things differently. Even if the new treaty is completed with the 70 years pma provision, changes will need to be made to the Copyright Act. The treaty is not self-actualizing. There is certainly no guarantee that all this can be done by the end of 2016 when Walt Disney's personal work goes into the public domain. Eclecticology 02:36, 10 February 2015 (PST)

Links to Wikilivres.ru

Linking As you may have noticed, I recently edited Template:AA to add a field for Wikidata. I feel like that could be a very useful resource for multilingual education and works on an author. I have noticed that since this site got rid of CC NC/ND works, they have moved to Wikilivres.ru and we have templates such as Template:CC-BY-NC-Author which explain that we don't host these not-quite-as-free works. Should I amend the text to read something like, "See this author's works on Wikilivres.ru"? Should I amend Template:AA to include links to that as well?

On a related note, do we know which locality has the most liberal copyright law that would allow legal reproduction of works? I know that there are international conventions about this but I'm not an expert on copyright. Thanks a lot. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 15:59, 24 February 2015 (PST)

About links in template AA to wikilivres.ru: why not?
About the most liberal copyright law: see en.ws:Help:Public domain. It seems that these coutres have the most liberal copyright law:
  1. Maldives - none
  2. Marshall Islands - none
  3. Seychelles - life + 25
  4. Libya - life + 25, with 50-year minimum (as of 1968; may have changed since)
  5. Yemen - life + 30
  6. Iran - life + 30
But I don't think it is a good idea to move the site to one of these countries ;) Electron   16:28, 24 February 2015 (PST)
Wikilivres.sc Granted, .mh is dormant and .mv is hosted in a place with extremely restrictive laws but would there be a problem with http://wikilivres.sc? —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 18:06, 24 February 2015 (PST)
There's no problem with editing the AA template to allow a link to Wikidata. If an author has pages on wikilivres.ru it's fine to link to them, but I dont see the need for having this as a part of the template. Gradually we are deprecating Template:CC-BY-NC-Author. Amending the text to show that the works are on wikilivres.ru ignores the fact that they could as well be in a different website. These other domains are not desirable. We need to consider if these places have reliable internet hosting, and not be subject to political censorship. Canada also follows the rule of the shorter term, and has a healthy attitude toward fair dealing. Before moving to some other country all details should be carefully studied. Eclecticology 00:29, 25 February 2015 (PST)
Links I'm mostly kidding about another Wikilivres: Canadian hosting probably provides the best bet that we have for making this content freely available. I don't understand why you think "these other domains are not desirable": more freely-licensed works is a better thing, right? I can't speak to whether or not .ru is reliably hosted or subject to censorship, etc. (I cannot understand Russian and I will not join the site as they require a real name). —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 02:25, 25 February 2015 (PST)
The lack of desirability for some of these domains are based on the uncertainty of internet infrastructure in these countries. The governments in Yemen and Lybia are particularly unstable, and Iran would certainly raise eyebrows even if it does have some desirable characteristics. I do not participate in the .ru site; my understanding of the language is too limited. Similarly, if someone else wants to operate a wiklivres site in any other top level domain at his own expense and legal responsibility I will not put up barriers to this happening. Eclecticology 12:58, 25 February 2015 (PST)
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